T h e F i d o G a z e t t e Volume 8 Number 02 February, 2014 +--------------------------+----------------------------------------+ | .----------------------. | dr.debug: dr.debug @ filegate.net | | | A bi-monthly E-Zine | | bbslists: bbslists @ filegate.net | | | published by Fidonet | | articles: fidogazette @ filegate.net| | | to promote BBSing | +----------------------------------------+ | | ____________. | | | | / __ |"Anyone who has never made a mistake | | | / / \ | has never tried anything new." | | | WOOF! ( /|oo \ | Albert Einstein | | \_______\(_| /_) | | | \@/ \ | Got Something To Say? | | .---.\ _ | Say it in the | | (jk) _ |usb| \ \\ | =The FidoGazette= | | / | .___. \ ))| | | / | /_ | / \// | Editor: Janis Kracht | | |___| // || _\ / | janis @ filegate . net | | .--`-. (_|(_|(____/ | janis kracht 1:261/38 | | |____| (jm) | | +--------------------------+----------------------------------------+ Table Of Contents Quote of the Day ........................2 Nodelist news ...........................3 Cooking: Gluten-Fee Snickerdoodles ......4 Fidonet SoftWare List ...................5 FidoGazette BBS List ....................6 Information (How to Submit an Article).. 7 FIDOGAZETTE Vol 8 No 02 February, 2014 ----------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================ Quote of the Day ================================================================ The old believe everything, the middle-aged suspect everything, the young know everything. ~ Oscar Wilde FIDOGAZETTE Vol 8 No 02 Page 2 February, 2014 ----------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================= A R T I C L E S ================================================================= Nodelist News: A necessary repeat By Janis Kracht, 1:261/38, janis@filegate.net This Thursday night, (originally posted on 1/23/2014) all the ZCs will turn on the keyword ALLOwunpub in their Makenl_NG .ctl files for Friday's production nodelist on January 24th, 2014. (We hope)RCs will be contacting NCs telling them to update their nodelist segments to replace the telephone string 000-0-0-0-0 with -Unpublished- for Internet nodes. If you can't get through to an NC, and you know they're "there", make the change yourself, please. Certainly pay attention to any changes that have to be made in your RIN sections. In the past, and with the original makenl package, -Unpublished- could only be used in the telephone field with it's counterpart keyword Pvt,. The ALLOwunpub 1 statement in .CTL files allows -Unpublished- to be used without Pvt. Addendum: Some systems may need to add both these statements: ALLOwunpub 1 MINphone 1 It will probably be a little while until all the NCs update their segments, but I can't imagine it will be a very long time. :) Janis Kracht Z1C FIDOGAZETTE Vol 8 No 02 Page 3 February, 2014 ----------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================= C O O K I N G: Even SysOps have to Eat ================================================================= Gluten-Fee Snickerdoodles From Recipes given various sources on the internet by Janis Kracht, 1:261/38, janis@filegate.net Preheat oven to 350F Line two large cookie sheets with parchment paper. Beat these ingredients until creamy: 1/2 cup butter 1/4 cup shortening 1/2 cup sugar 1/4 cup brown sugar 2 teapoons vanilla extract Actually, today I reversed this.. I used 1/4 butter and 1/2 cup Spectrum organic shortening.. the results were great and I'll do it again. I added about ~1/2 tsp salt to the shortening to make up for the butter's salt. Add one at at time: 2 large eggs In a separate bowl add and mix well: 3 cups almond flour (HonevilleGrain, https://tinyurl.com/nxflxa7 https://tinyurl.com/nxflxa7 sells a great product but you can grind 3cups of almonds to make the flour. It needs to be ground very fine). 1 teaspoon cinnamon 3/4 teaspoons salt 1/2 teasopoon baking soda After these ingredients are mixed well, add them to shortening/butter/sugar mixture, 1 cup at a time. Beat until well combined. Now in another separate bowl mix: 2 teaspoons cinnamon 1/4 cup sugar Measure a tablespoon or soup spoon's worth of dough, and quickly roll in to a ball.. it should be about a 2, 2-1/2" ball. Roll the ball in the combined sugar and cinnamon, coating all over. Place the coated ball on the prepared cookie sheets, about 2" apart. Bake at 350F for 11-13 minutes. FIDOGAZETTE Vol 8 No 02 Page 4 February, 2014 ----------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================= F I D O N E T S O F T W A R E L I S T ================================================================= ================================================================ FIDONET SOFTWARE LISTING ================================================================ BBS Software List Updated 05 January 2014 Maintained by Andrew Leary (1:320/119) Editors Emeritus: Robert Couture, Janis Kracht, Sean Dennis M=Mailer T=Tosser B=BBS D=Door C=Comm/Terminal P=Points E=Editor I=Internet U=Utility #=Info F=TIC/SRIF Processor *=Software is available and may be registerable, but no longer supported or updated. @=Website is operating but is no longer updated. ?=Software's updating/support status is unknown. O=Software is open source. This list contains BBS-related software that is available for registration (not necessarily supported), open source software and actively developed/supported software by its author. Software listed may be available for DOS, Linux, OS/2 (eComStation), Windows (16 or 32 bit) and OSX. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -. Software: Author |Type |URL, Contact, Ver, Notes Help Node| - - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -' ==> FRONT-END/INTERNET MAILERS Argus |MI*? |http://www.ritlabs.com/en/products/argus/ | | v3.210 on Mar 29 2001 BinkleyTerm XE |MO* |http://btxe.sourceforge.net | | 2.60XE Beta-XH7 on Oct 22 2000 BinkD |MI? |http://binkd.grumbler.org | | gul@gul.kiev.ua 2:463/68 | | v.1.0.0 | | v.1.0.1 (alpha) | | ftp://cvs.happy.kiev.ua/pub/fidosoft/mailer | | /binkd/ | |http://www.filegate.net/r50/aftnbinkd/ D'Bridge |MTCPE|http://www.net229.org/dbridge.htm 1:1/130 Nick Andre |I | v3.98 on Dec 20 2013 FIDO-Deluxe IP |MPUI |http://www.fido-deluxe.de.vu 2:2432/280 Michael Haase | | m.haase@gmx.net | | v2.4 on Sep 26 2003 FrontDoor, FD/APX: |MITPC|http://www.defsol.se 2:201/330 Definite Solutions |? | sales@defsol.se | | v2.26SW & v2.33ml FD, v1.15 APX Husky Project |MTPUI|http://husky.sourceforge.net/ |EO? | v1.9 RC2 on Apr 20 2010 Taurus |MI |http://www.fidotel.com/public/forums/ (based on Radius) |? | taurus/index.htm | | v5.0 Jun 12 2006 | | T-Mail |MI |http://www.tmail.spb.ru (Russian only) |? | v2608 on Dec 12 2001 AfterShock |MTEI |https://play.google.com/store/apps/ Asvcorp | | details?id=com.asvcorp.aftershock Anatoly Vdovichev | | rudi.timmer@gmail.com 1:1/140 Rudi Timmermans | | v1.5 on Nov 10 2013 - - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -+ => MAIL TOSSERS Crashmail II |TO |http://ftnapps.sourceforge.net/ | | crashmail.html FastEcho |T |http://www.softeq.de/old/Products/FastEcho/ | | fastecho.html | | v1.46.1 on 13 Nov 2007 | | Registration keys are free and available | | by request from the author Fidogate |TUI? |http://www.fidogate.org | | v4.4.10 on Aug 27 2004 | | FMail |TO |http://fmail.sourceforge.net/ | | v1.66.GPL on Oct 20 2013 JetMail: JetSys |TU |http://www.jetsys.de js@jetsys.de (ATARI ST only) | | v1.01 on Jan 1st 2000 Squish |T* |http://www.filegate.net/maximus_bbs/ | | v1.11R2 on Jan 1 2009 | | Source code available in the Maximus BBS | | archive: http://maximus.sourceforge.net WWIVToss |T |http://www.weather-station.org/wwiv/ | | v1.50 on 23 May 2011 - - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -+ => BBS SOFTWARE BBBS |BICTM|http://www.bbbs.net 2:22/222 | | b@bbbs.net | | v4.01 on January 28 2007 EleBBS |BO*? |http://www.elebbs.com | | v0.10.RC1 on Jun 9 2002 Enthral BBS |B |http://enthralbbs.com 1:250/501 Linux/BSD/OSX | | v0.429/Alpha on 14 October 2010 | | Fidonet filebone SCENEENT Ezycom BBS |BT* |http://www.ezycom-bbs.com 3:690/682 | | v2.15g2 on Nov 16 2009 GT Power |B |http://www.gtpowerbbs.com/ | | v19.00 Hermes II Project |BT |http://www.hermesbbs.com/ Macintosh-based | | malyn@strangegizmo.com | | v3.5.10b3 Maximus BBS |BO* |http://www.filegate.net/maximus_bbs/ | | v3.03 | | Source code available at: | | http://maximus.sourceforge.net/ MBSE BBS |BIO |http://www.mbse.eu/bbsing/mbsebbs 2:280/2802 | | mbroek@mbse.eu | | v0.95.15 on Dec 26 2012 Meltdown BBS |UIO |http://meltdown-bbs.sourceforge.net/ | | v1.0b on Apr 26 2004 Mystic BBS |BMTCE|http://www.mysticbbs.com |IO | http://wiki.mysticbbs.com | | v1.10 A31 on Apr 13 2013 RemoteAccess BBS |B? |http://www.rapro.com 1:1/120 | | bfmorse@rapro.com | | v2.62.2SW Renegade BBS |B |http://renegadebbs.info 1:129/305 | | v1.10/DOS on 3 Oct 2009 Spitfire BBS |B? |http://www.buffalocrk.com/ | | mdwoltz@buffalocrk.com | | v3.7 on Jan 1, 2010 Synchronet BBS |BTIO |http://www.synchro.net 1:103/705 | | v3.15b on 8 Oct 2011 Telegard BBS |B* |http://www.telegard.net | | v3.09g2-sp4/mL on Dec 19 1999 WildCat! Interactive |MTBEI|http://www.santronics.com Net Server, Platinum| | sales@santronics.com Xpress: Santronics | | Software, Inc. | | v6.4 AUP 454.1 on Aug 1 2011 - - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -+ => TIC PROCESSORS/FILEFIX/SRIF Allfix |FIUT |http://www.allfix.com/ 1:140/12 Bob Seaborn | | v6.0.22 on 26 January 2011 NEF/pk |F |http://nefpk.8m.com/ | | v2.45b2 on 5 March 2000 TinyTIC |FO |http://ftnapps.sourceforge.net/tinytic.html | | 1:120/544 VIReq |FO |http://ftnapps.sourceforge.net/vireq.html | | 1:120/544 - - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -+ => BBS DOORS/UTILITIES Cheepware |DU |http://outpostbbs.net/cheepware.html Sean Dennis | | sean@outpostbbs.net 1:18/200 | | Fidonet filebone CH-WARE DDS (Doorware |D@ |http://www.doorgames.org Distribution System)| | ruth@doorgames.org Ruth Argust | | Jibben Software |D* |http://www.jibbensoftware.com/ | | bbs-door-games.cfm | | scott@jibben.com | | 1995-99 Release dates John Dailey Software |DU |http://www.johndaileysoftware.com Shining Star |D* |http://www.shiningstar.net/bbsdoors/ | | nannette@shiningstar.net | | Doors are still registerable via website Sunrise Doors: |D |http://www.sunrisedoors.com Al Lawrence | | al@sunrisedoors.com | | Tel: (404) 256-9518 T1ny's Software |DU |http://www.tinysbbs.com/files/tsoft/ Shawn Highfield | | shighfield@gmail.com 1:229/452 | | Fidonet filebone CH-WARE The Brainex System |D |http://www.brainex.com/brainex_system/ | | stanley@brainex.com | | 1994-99 Releases Trade Wars |D* |http://www.eisonline.com/tradewars/ | | jpritch@eisonline.com | | v3.09 (DOS-32) in 2002 Vagabond Software |DU* |http://vbsoft.dhakota.org | | d@dhakota.org | | Last update: Apr 11 2008 WWIVEdit |DE |http://www.weather-station.org/wwiv/ | | v3.0 on 27 Jun 2011 - - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -+ => POINT SOFTWARE CrossPoint (XP) |P? |http://www.crosspoint.de (German only) | | pm@crosspoint.de | | v3.12d on Dec 22 1999 FreeXP |P |http://www.freexp.de (German only) | | support@freexp.de | | v3.42 on Jun 27 2010 FidoIP |PO |http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/fidoip/ | | v.1.0.5 on Dec 2010 - - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -+ => SYSOP MAIL EDITORS GoldEd+ |EO |http://golded-plus.sourceforge.net/ | | v1.1.5 (Snapshot) on Mar 20 2011 | | NOTE: Unstable versions released often SqEd32 |E |http://www.sqed.de 2:2476/493 | | v1.15 on Dec 15 1999 | | Website is in German and English - - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -+ => INTERNET UTILITIES Ifmail |UIO |http://ifmail.sourceforge.net | | crosser@average.org Internet Rex |UI? |http://members.shaw.ca/InternetRex/ | | telnet://xanadubbs.ca 1:342/806 | | v2.29 on Oct 21st 2001 JamNNTPd |UIO |http://ftnapps.sourceforge.net/jamnntpd.html | | 1:120/544 Luckygate |UO | ftp://happy.kiev.ua/pub/fidosoft/gate/lgate | | gul@gul.kiev.ua MakeNL |UO |http://makenl.sourceforge.net | | v3.2.9 on Feb 1 2010 RNtrack |U |hhttp://sourceforge.net/projects/ftrack-as | |2:5080/102 | |stas_degteff@users.sourceforge.net | | v1.32 on Apr 29 2011 TransNet |UIO? |http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mressl/ | | transnet/index.html | | transnet@ressl.com.ar | | v2.11 on Sep 13 2007 - - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -+ => INFORMATIONAL WEBSITES/BBS LISTS Telnet/Dialup BBS |# |http://www.telnetbbsguide.com 1:275/89 Guide | | Maintained by Dave Perrussel | | This is probably the most updated BBS | | list on the Internet for a general | | BBS list. Synchronet BBS List |# |http://www.synchro.net/sbbslist.html | | Maintained automatically | | This list is specifically for | | Synchronet-based BBS systems and is | | automatically updated nightly. The BBS Corner |# |http://www.bbscorner.com | | This website is more than just files, | | it's an encyclopedia of knowledge for | | BBS sysops and people who want to | | become sysops. This site is run by | | the same person who does the Telnet | | BBS Guide. - - - - - - - - - - -+- - -+- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -+ File Archives: http://archives.thebbs.org http://sysopscorner.thebbs.org (site is no longer maintained) http://www.simtel.net http://www.bbsfiles.com http://hobbes.nmsu.edu (OS/2 specific) http://www.filegate.net/ (FTP access via port 60721) http://www.tinysbbs.com/files/ Note: Most also provide FTP access (use ftp instead of http above) The BBS Software List is published weekly in the FidoNews. If you have corrections, suggestions or additions to the information above, please contact Andrew Leary with your information via the FIDONEWS echo or netmail at 1:320/119. FIDOGAZETTE Vol 8 No 02 Page 5 February, 2014 ----------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================= F I D O G A Z E T T E B B S L I S T ================================================================= =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= !!! G A Z E T T E B B S L I S T !!! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-= By bbslist @ filegate.net Send updates, changes to address above or to janis @ filegate.net. Updated: October 30th, 2013 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= System.......Capitol City Online FidoAddress..1:2320/105 Phone........502-875-8938 Software.....GT Power OS...........OS/2 C/B Verify...None Access.......First Call access to most of BBS upon finishing new user questionnaire Telnet.......cco.ath.cx telnet access to GT Power BBS - same as dial-up www:.........http://cco.ath.cx This site runs Synchronet under linux. Requires separate user registration. Has same message areas as dial-up/telnet bbs. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= System.......Christian Fellowship FidoAddress..1:266/512 Phone........1-856-933-7096 Software.....PCBoard 15.3 OS...........Windows XP pro C/B Verify...Manually via email or voice usually within 24 hours. Access.......Read only until verified. Once verified write access to Msg bases, file areas, chat and doors/games. Telnet.......cfbbs.dtdns.net or cfbbs.no-ip.com =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= System.......Deep Space 69 BBS FidoAddress..1:135/364 Software.....Virtual Advanced OS...........Windows XP Media Edition C/B Verify...None Access.......First Call access to Msg bases, file areas, all features of the BBS. Telnet.......bbs.ds69bbs.com telnet access offers full features of the standard bbs such as doors, qwkmail, Files, chat, group chat, upload/download messages. www:.........http://www.ds69bbs.com Thanks to VADV-PHP you can access almost everything the BBS has to offer from the web, with the exception of door games. FTP: bbs.ds69bbs.com, port 21, anonymous allowed, public access to file areas. Hub of IFDC FileGate Project. Home of the Virtual_FDN =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= System.......Lightning BBS FidoAddress..1:311/2 Software.....Virtual Advanced OS...........Windows XP C/B Verify...None Access.......First call access to doors, files and message reading. Message posting requires validation. Telnet.......lightningbbs.com www:.........http:/www.lightningbbs.com/index.php Thanks to VADV-PHP you can access almost everything the BBS has to offer from the web, with the exception of door games. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= System.......Lionsden BBS FidoAddress..1:224/303 Phone........613-392-8896 Software.....Synchronet OS...........Windows XP C/B Verify...None Access.......First Call access to Msg bases, and file areas. Telnet.......lionsden.darktech.org telnet access offers full features of the standard bbs such as doors, qwkmail, Files, etc. www:.........http:/www.lionsden.darktech.org You will redirected to a menu where you can choose one of three sites. The first one is private and requires PW to get into. FTP..........FTP://lionsden.darktech.org Files only =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= System.......The Positronium Repository FidoAddress..1:393/68 Phone........337-984-4794 Software.....POTS: WildCat + Telnet: Synchronet OS...........Windows XP C/B Verify...None Access.......First Call access to most of BBS upon finishing new user questionnaire Telnet.......cmech.dynip.com www:.........http://cmech.dynip.com Access to live File Areas only, over 37,000 files at 13GB in library ;-) Home for BFDS, APOD (BBS is Filebase.BBS) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= System.......Prism BBS FidoAddress..1:261/38 Phone........607-200-4076 Software.....BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Dada-1 OS...........Linux (Ubuntu) C/B Verify...None Access.......First Call access to Msg bases, file areas, all features of the BBS. Telnet.......filegate.net telnet access offers full features of the standard bbs such as doors, qwkmail, BWmail,Files, chat, group chat, upload/download messages, download URLs, ftp access to other sites by request. www:.........http:/www.filegate.net:8090/bbbs web interface is limited to reading messages and replying online, or downloading messages in qwk packets, but not uploading them, file download access. FTP: filegate.net, port 60721, anonymous allowed, public access to file areas. Home of IFDC FileGate Project, PDN, Util*Net, Win_FDN, =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= System.......Roach Guts BBS FidoAddress..1:396/60 Software.....Synchronet 3.16a OS...........Debian 6.0 32-bit C/B Verify...None Access.......First call access to doors, files and message reading. Message posting requires validation. Telnet.......kingcoder.net =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= System.......Shenk's Express FidoAddress..1:275/100 Phone........757-233-9860 Software.....SBBS OS...........WIN XP C/B Verify...None Access.......First Call access Telnet.......shenks.synchro.net This site is the coordinator for Battlenet, a large BRE league with 7 BRE games. Also hosting 2 FE league games. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= System.......TequilaMockingbird Online FidoAddress..1:266/404 Phone........973-551-0704 Software.....Synchronet OS...........Windows Server 2008 C/B Verify...None Access.......First Call access to most of BBS upon finishing new user questionnaire Telnet.......tequilamockingbirdonline.net www:.........www.tequilamockingbirdonline.net (No access to bbs at this time.) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= System.......Time Warp of the Future BBS FidoAddress..1:340/400 Phone........none Software.....sbbs 3.16a (very beta) OS...........win. (xp pro. sp3) C/B Verify...None Access.......First Call access to Msg bases, and file areas. Telnet.......time.synchro.net:24 or time.darktech.org:24 or timewarpfuture.dyndns.org:24 telnet access offers full features of the standard bbs such as doors, messages or file area etc. www:.........http://time.synchro.net:81 Web interface is limited really to reading messages and replying online, or downloading messages in qwk packets, but not uploading them, and file download access. SBBS files available. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= FIDOGAZETTE Vol 8 No 02 Page 6 February, 2014 ----------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================= I N F O R M A T I O N ================================================================= INFO: Fidogazette is published by Janis Kracht, Editor, with the help of Richard Webb (Old School ToolBox). If you have an idea for a column or a series of articles, please contact me :) New! Mailing-List subscriptions via www.filegate.net // lists / ?p=subscribe but of course you can always link into your uplink and use Tick or a tick compatible program. Where to Send Your Articles Unlike most editors, I surely do not mind running my mouth when there is a sparsity of articles for the 'zine. I'd MUCH rather you sent in material... lacking that, I will fill these issues with my meanderings and thoughts and hopefully we will grow into something of consequence here :) Write an article! If you WOULD like to submit an article, feel free to drop your article off at: Email attach to address: janis @ filegate.net Fidonet attach: Janis Kracht at 1:261/38 Modem: 607-200-4076 Binkp: 1:261/100 filegate.net port 24555 telnet mailer: filegate.net If you are using routed Fidonet mail, don't send articles as routed attaches. They will fail somewhere along the path before getting here. Send them instead direct to filegate.net. Give it a title, sign your name and network address if you have one and send it along! Don't worry about the format, I can take anything you send me and mutilate it further as you can see above. Linux is nice that way (g). Spell checking your own work will help though (something I'm typically guilty of (g)). To send reviews or recipes to the Food section, email or netmail Janis as above. Email address for submissions to Dr.Debug: To send a question to Dr. Debug, email a question to: drdebug @ filegate.net or post in the fidogazette echo! :) To send a listing to the FidoGazette bbslist, email your listing to: bbslist @ filegate.net or post it in the fidogazette echo! FIDOGAZETTE Vol 8 No 02 Page 7 February, 2014 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Published with MakeNews2 by Janis Kracht 2011-2012 -=+-=+-=+-=+-=+-=+-=+-=+-=+-=+-=+-=+-=+-=+-=+-=+-=